zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Misc topics about I2P
apt0110
Posts: 3
Joined: 16 Mar 2023 21:23

Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by apt0110 »

The projekt needs a governance model that is understood by the public, a roadmap and a fresh look, in that order.

The roadmap should include what services, if any, are deemed critical aside from the router. After that, for the each element in the roadmap, a plan.
echelon
Posts: 261
Joined: 10 Feb 2018 13:36

Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by echelon »

HI

Do not forget about one thing:
no plan, no funds, no good ideas, no good org structure will code ANY line.

The I2P project needs good java coders with a very good understanding of the code, the ideas and crypto.

Most other tasks can be resolved easy afterwards.

echelon
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lgillis
Posts: 144
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 12:52

Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by lgillis »

Homepage I2P PROJEKT, the contact page.
eyedeekay wrote: 18 Mar 2023 11:51 Thanks Igillis, I will get to that this weekend.
I have taken out only the obvious former participants, zzz and zlatinb, the latter having already stopped his support some time ago. In addition, no volunteers have yet been found for the positions described as vacant. If there are other former participants on the list, I can add them. Data source: http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/contact, 2023-03-21 Di 12:28:54.
Most of the discussion about I2P's development happens on the I2P developer forum (only reachable from within I2P network). This is usually the best place to start with inquiries, if the dev IRC channel is inactive.

Code: Select all

| Team Administration                |                        |                                                                          |
|------------------------------------+------------------------+--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Project Manager                    | –                      | point of contact of last resort                                          |
| Donations treasurer                | meeh                   | manage donations                                                         |
| PR manager                         | Sadie                  | press contact, manages public relations and affairs                      |
| Assistant PR manager               | idk                    | Public speaking, public relations assistance                             |
| Forum admin                        | echelon                | manage the public user forum                                             |
| Download mirrors admin             | idk                    | manage the mirrors for the download files                                |
| Website mirrors admin              | [vacant]               | manage the mirrors for the website                                       |
| Monotone guru                      | echelon                | manage the public monotone repositories                                  |
| Packager; Linux                    | –                      | Linux (Debian/Ubuntu) distribution packager                              |
| Packager; Windows                  | –                      | Windows installer packager                                               |
| Packager; OSX                      | –                      | OSX installer packager                                                   |
| Release Manager                    | –                      | Builds and signs the releases                                            |
| Release Manager Alternates         | echelon, str4d         | Backup release managers                                                  |
| CI admin                           | idk                    | Maintain the Continuous Integration infrastructure                       |
| Reseed admin                       | backup                 | Monitors, advises and recruits reseed hosts                              |
| Security Researcher                | [vacant]               | threat model / crypto expert                                             |
| Gitlab admin                       | idk                    | Manage the project gitlab                                                |
| Issue Tracker(Replaces Trac) admin | idk                    | Manage the project bug tracker                                           |
| Translation admins                 | echelon, –, idk, Sadie | Admins on Transifex                                                      |
| User Advocate                      | Sadie                  | gather, prioritize, advocate for user needs                              |
| Product Development                | Sadie                  | supervises projects from the early planning stages to project completion |
| Website Maintainer                 | idk                    | manage the public project website content design                         |
| Webserver admin                    | echelon                | manage the public project webservers                                     |
| Website admin                      | idk                    | manage the public project website content                                |
| News Admin                         | echelon                | manage router console news feed                                          |
| Backup News Admin                  | idk                    | manage the backup news feed                                              |
| Design and Usability               | Sadie, idk             | ongoing improvements to user experience for website and software         |
| Google Play admin                  | idk                    |                                                                          |
| F-Droid admin                      | idk                    |                                                                          |
| Outproxy admin                     | StormyCloud            |                                                                          |

Code: Select all

| Team Software Developer |                   |                                                                    |
|-------------------------+-------------------+--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Core Lead               | –                 | lead dev for the SDK and router                                    |
| I2P mail lead           | postman           | organize and develop the i2p mail system                           |
| I2P-Bote lead           | str4d             | I2P-Bote plugin                                                    |
| I2PSnark lead           | –                 | Maintains the integrated Bittorrent client                         |
| Syndie lead             | [vacant]          | Syndie development                                                 |
| Susimail lead           | –                 | Susimail development                                               |
| Android lead            | idk               | Android development                                                |
| Console                 | idk, Sadie        | Router console HTML/CSS design                                     |
| SAM                     | –                 | SAM maintainer                                                     |
| Translators             | many many people! | Translators on Transifex                                           |
| Contributors            | cervantes         | fire2pe dev, console enhancements                                  |
|                         | Mathiasdm         | desktopgui, dijjer port                                            |
|                         | –                 | Debian/Ubuntu Packager and PPA maintainer                          |
|                         | str4d             | Routerconsole backend and UI work, website revamp, unit tests work |
|                         | [vacant]          | Help needed on many fronts!                                        |
Spring https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF-q-IGQQb1uK7fYuaQiRpcORDSmfsY2n
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lgillis
Posts: 144
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Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by lgillis »

Re: http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/contact

As you can see for yourself, the tasks have been reassigned and I2P is now under new management. Meanwhile echelon additionally takes over the task of the packager for OSX. The developer eyedeekay or short idk takes over the programming of the Java Router as well as the associated programs and activities in addition to his previous tasks (under the restrictions mentioned by him further above).

Congratulating them is certainly not appropriate in view of the abrupt change, but I wish the new team as a whole every success.

Again briefly to the website, only a few banalities, also so that among the viewers no boredom arises. Under administration, the "Monotone guru" falls away after I2P has switched to Git. The development of "I2P-Bote" still points to the Eepsite abandoned since June 2015 and should be brought up to date. Under the item "Social Media" there is a different contact point for Reddit to the one listed in the page footer, a resolving explanation is missing at this point.

And one more thing, in my opinion it would be better for outsiders if the current project manager makes his freely chosen names transparent so that no confusion arises in this regard.

Next, we can turn our attention to the phrase "inclusion", which has recently given rise to a lively discussion that has not yet been resolved democratically. After all, it is about social peace and possibly the community of participants will find a formulation that everyone can live with - and without calling for al-Qaeda. ;-)
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supperman
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Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by supperman »

Basically says if you run i2p you support homosexuality, a death penalty in some places.
echelon
Posts: 261
Joined: 10 Feb 2018 13:36

Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by echelon »

Hi

there is no need to discuss which is not to be discussed and/or not being decided by people not involved with the developement of tools and services.
No need to construct obscure circles or ideas.

And to make it clear: as long as I do run the servers and do supply ressources into I2P, I decide which content runs on my servers. Not you, not the community, not anyone else. Only me. Whatever anyone may think about this is not base of my decisions, neither a fake call for democratic discussion.
(and yeah, you cannot call a discussion democratic if you try to enforce a result ahead and do not ask every single user of I2P, but let this basic facts aside).

Running servers is not a community task, neither a democratic task.

If you do not want to follow this setup, do your own setup, tools, network, community. I2P source is free and anyone may run its own servers. Thats the spirit of I2P.

You may call it anything you like, but thats the way it is. And I do not care what you may call me due to this. Really. And as I go steady with this for the last 20 years, I will go on the next 20 or more.


And to devide this from the I2p source development:

Source developement is not my task neither do I decide whats inside the source of I2P or not.
Neither do I decide what topics the I2P community may discuss or not.
But all content on my servers need to follow the law and my guidelines of running the servers.
I am not a gatekeeper of I2P source, software, discussions nor content inside of I2P.

This said: do keep your mind focussed on the development of the I2P router and the I2P source in a free, open minded spirit, to support the suppressed people and minorities worldwide, not to harass anyone.
I do work on keeping the servers running in a lawful way to let others provide their work to support those suppressed, harassed, excluded people.
I2P is built to support people, not to harass people. And in this mind, I do not support people who do work against this goal.

echelon

P.S.: you may discuss about anything you like in this forum, as long as it is on topic of the selected board and it follows the law and does not harass others. But it will not be the guideline I do follow with my servers. So, I will not surpress your opinion, but I will not allow anyone to harass and bad talk others. Simple netiquette and forum rules.
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lgillis
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Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by lgillis »

But zlatinb was involved in the development of tools and services and he asked you, echelon, specifically with whom you discussed the commit to "Inclusion" and whether you even asked anyone from the project about it. You didn't answer that which made the zabs emotions boil over. (The links and a confused and irritating statement can be found in the updated Readme.md to MuWire. A well worth reading piece, that's how you get to know the country and its people).

Point two was the appearance of the previously mentioned developer under an alias in the forum "zzz". The lead developer of Java-I2P at that time gave on the presented complaint and the short for and again by added involved ones up to the lead developer of I2Pd to protocol, that the entry "Inclusion" was not agreed with him and he has no desire on a discussion about it in his forum. As a reason he gave, it would have been solely echelon's decision and its forum (this one) would be the right place for discussion. Thereupon he locked the thread.

The next day zlatinb opened a new thread in forum "zzz", still under the alias but this time with his valid GnuPG signature. Apparently he had tried to log into the I2PForum and have the discussion there and that had not worked. He saw this as a conspiracy and issued an ultimatum. If he could not make himself heard within a week, he would have things to say about those involved that would bring them down. Nothing concrete was mentioned, but it was a tangible blackmail.

Long before the deadline, the then lead developer (Java-I2P) wordlessly folded his tents and left I2P. That's the story in a nutshell.

And so that no misunderstandings arise, it was not about German laws and echelons guidelines, to which he refers and which only he knows, but about the content to the Commit "Inclusion". The complaint was that the statement was much too one-sided for an international project like I2P. Echelon suggests through his language and demeanor, as he so often does, that he is the I2P spokesman but when approached he vehemently forbids it. Now the "Inclusion" is written in stone on his "The Invisible Internet Project" website, if I understand him correctly. Whoever is interested can investigate which websites belong to it, the addresses are publicly available.
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echelon
Posts: 261
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Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by echelon »

Ok, lets gets this straight in a line.

If a person threatens others with blackmailing and other bad means, it is NOT just a emotion boiling over.

And if a single line of including everyone and support the people who needs help, and the simple basic humanity level of not harass or threat people with bad stuff is making people mad, the line is far more worth than anything else and proofs its point.

If a person cannot stand with that line of integration, the person should not work in a project dedicated to help the suppressed and harassed people.
Any group should think twice about working/interacting/encourage/depend with/on those people or not.

And on a more overview point. people CAN change their mind, but people cannot change their skin colour, their love, their body, for which they are harassed and hated and bad talked about. Think about it. Hate is NOT a opinion.

And whatever you do interprete into my statements, is your opinion. The basic fact is, I am not a spokesman for I2P and cannot speak for I2P. For at least I2P does not exist as a legal entity and other reasons.

As written above, you may discuss in the rules of this forum here, you may discuss anywhere else, your decision, I will not stop you, or others, as long as they follow the basic guidelines. But it will not change my mind neither my point about integration or humanity.

Also: I will not let other blackmailing me or other people around. I will not support people trying to force their opinion with blackmailing and other, rules breaking, people harassing means. And let them publish their hate in this forum is one kind of support, I do not support as a administrator of this forum.
Whoever that may be.

P.S.: I will not discuss with further details and will not disclose other internal stuff, as others do (with their added changes and simple manipulations, e.g. seen above).

echelon
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lgillis
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Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by lgillis »

No one here has asked you to tolerate insults or worse. But we should pay attention to the chronological sequence and not simply pick up the keywords that fit the bill, also in consideration of the readers who are trying to understand the course of events. For good reason, my description before was without valuation and fair to those involved without bringing the dirty laundry in detail here. I gave the interested readers the means to get the "hard facts". However, your response shows me that nothing has really been clarified. The P2P people basically have no say in the matter, have to listen to condescension and be patronized, in all sites close to the project hangs the sword of Damocles of the house rules that can change at any time and are not fixed but enforced, and the question of political neutrality through a formulation of "Inculsion" that is perceived as one-sided and arbitrary is controversial. But as long as there are still volunteers who make their bandwidth available for the prospect of a dystopia, everything seems to be fine.

By the way, I actually thought your "Inclusion" was only partially unfortunate wording, but when I look closely at your claims associated with it, the factual I2P means your consequent withdrawal from I2P. Because it is bigoted to want the good but to enable the bad. You should at least be fair enough to the other participants and mark this "Inclusion" as your personal opinion.
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echelon
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Re: zzz and the state of i2p Java router development

Post by echelon »

Hi

So, to be personal: rating a blackmailing and even worse harassment as "emotions boiling over" is neutral and not judging/rating harmful words as harmless?
Also you do try to rate and judge me, which is not neutral neither a fact base result.
You need at least call yourself biased.

And to make it clear: I do run my services, not the community. If the community want to decide, let them pay, run, administer and legally register the services by the community. The I2P sourcecode is free, anyone may do it. No one need to use my services.
And as always written: I do not code, I did not provide code to the I2P source, so you can run completely on your own if you do not like me.
Thats the spirit of I2P: do your own, which cannot be blocked.

All I read currently is a try forcing out content some people do not like, which I do not support. No arguments given, just personal hate, harassment and opinions. No argument, as there is no argument against inclusion of all peaceful people and not allowing hate, crime and harassment. And those terms are not controversial or one-sided. It is as open and clear as it is: include anyone, who do interact without hate, harassment and alike.
Thats a typical FUD campain, Fear, uncertain, doubt. This does not work in here.

Interesting to see some people saying several times loudly "I do not care about XYZ" and come back shouting, yelling, crying, blackmailing, harassing the people and content they do not care about.
At least far off OT, but this looks like a personal crusade of a few against a open, inclusive, peaceful and supporting community; at least it was more than disruptive and the fallout is far more than anyone may suspect.

And on a personal note: I do not provide public space/visibility for people blackmailing, harrassing, calling me/my friends bad names

echelon
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